Legislature(2005 - 2006)CAPITOL 106
02/23/2006 08:00 AM House STATE AFFAIRS
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| HB475 | |
| HB403 | |
| HCR27 | |
| Adjourn |
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| *+ | HB 475 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| = | HB 403 | ||
| *+ | HB 45 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| *+ | HB 485 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | HCR 27 | ||
HB 403-NEIGHBORHOOD ELECTRIC VEHICLES 8:10:04 AM CHAIR SEATON announced that the next order of business was HOUSE BILL NO. 403, "An Act relating to registration and operation of neighborhood electric vehicles." 8:10:11 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO moved to adopt the proposed committee substitute (CS) for HB 403, Version 24-LS1229\F, Luckhaupt, 2/22/06, as a work draft. There being no objection, Version F was before the committee. 8:10:48 AM IAN FISK, Staff to Representative Bill Thomas, Alaska State Legislature, on behalf of Representative Thomas, sponsor, reviewed the changes made in Version F. First and foremost, he said, Version F changes the designation of neighborhood electric vehicles to "low speed vehicles", which he said brings the bill into line with existing federal regulations. He specified, "We're not talking about golf carts and meter maid vehicles, although these could probably be used in those applications." Low speed vehicles are: vehicles with four wheels that must be capable of a minimum of 20 miles per hour (mph), but limited to a maximum of 25 miles per hour. Any kind of modifications to make them go faster than that are prohibited. They are required by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) to have headlights, front and rear turn signals, tail lights, break lights, reflectors, automotive quality windshields, mirrors, parking breaks, vehicles identification numbers, and seatbelts. Furthermore, he said, low-speed vehicles have to meet certain testing requirements that are spelled out in federal regulations developed in 1998. Mr. Fisk noted that "these types of vehicles" are now legal in 36 other states. MR. FISK noted that low-speed vehicles offer the following advantages: fuel efficiency, zero or significantly lower emissions, a popularity with retired individuals, and accessibility for those with physical disabilities. 8:13:08 AM MR. FISK stated that the problem currently is that the Division of Motor Vehicles (DMV) cannot regulate or register low-speed vehicles. He reported that the DMV supports [HB 403] and is requesting the specific authority to register and regulate low- speed vehicles. Version F also spells out in Section 2 that the registration fees for the low-speed vehicles would be $100 biannually, which is the same cost as for any other passenger vehicle. 8:13:47 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER said she is unfamiliar with the vehicles in question. She asked, "Are they what people call 'Segways'?" 8:14:03 AM MR. FISK answered no. He offered his belief that Segways are referred to in statute as "personal electric vehicles" and, thus, would not meet the requirements of a low-speed vehicle. 8:14:23 AM CHAIR SEATON directed attention to the definition of a low-speed vehicle on page 2, lines 20-24. He noted that Section 1 of Version F refers to the safety requirements. 8:14:54 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked if dealers would be required to process license and title fees as they do with automotive vehicles. 8:15:14 AM MR. FISK noted that Section 3, [subsection (a)] read: "The operator of a low-speed vehicle is subject to all the traffic and other laws applicable to operators of passenger vehicles." He said, "I would presume that dealers would be as well." 8:15:40 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER said, "I've heard people whizzing around the neighborhoods on some kind of vehicles. I don't know what you call them, but they sound like a lawnmower and they're really obnoxious." She asked what the volume of the low-speed vehicles would be. 8:15:55 AM MR. FISK said the vast majority of low-speed vehicles are electric and are not loud like a lawnmower. 8:16:15 AM CHAIR SEATON observed that HB 403 would limit the vehicle, by definition, to being electric; they could not be small engine vehicles. 8:16:38 AM MR. FISK answered that's correct. He pointed out that on page 2, line 20, the word "electric" was left in before "motor vehicle" - an oversight, he explained. He stated that it is not the intention of the sponsor to limit the low-speed vehicles to electric ones, because there are vehicles that could be developed to meet the restrictions that could be powered by other sources, for example, propane. He drew attention to photos of low-speed vehicles [included in the committee packet]. He said these vehicles are filling a market that is asking for an energy efficient vehicle. Because they are limited in speed, he said, the low-speeds vehicles will most likely be limited in sound. 8:18:51 AM CHAIR SEATON, in response to questions from Representative Gatto, clarified the concept of the minimum and maximum speed requirements. 8:19:27 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG indicated his readiness to amend the language to remove the word "electric". 8:19:56 AM CHAIR SEATON asked that amendments be held until later. 8:20:07 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that Section 3, [paragraph (b)], sets out restrictions regarding roads and speed limits. He opined that those details should not be in state law, but should be left to the Department of Transportation & Public Facilities (DOT&PF) or local authorities to decide. 8:21:09 AM MR. FISK responded that he thinks that's a good point. He offered his understanding that other states have chosen to do something similar to that. One concern, however, would be not to set up "a patchwork of different regulations." He said he doesn't think the sponsor would take issue with allowing municipalities the latitude to figure out which particular areas within a town could be designated as low-speed vehicle areas. 8:22:01 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG clarified that he is only talking about the speed limit, not the specifications for the vehicles. 8:22:28 AM CHAIR SEATON stated the reason for having a minimum speed for the low-speed vehicles is to keep them within a flow of traffic for safety reasons. He suggested that if local governments didn't set limits, the result could be dangerous, because a vehicle with a maximum speed of 25 miles could be operating on a 55 mph road. 8:23:10 AM MR. FISK replied that that's a good point. He indicated that making general designations are good, but perhaps local municipalities could be allowed to make some exceptions for safety reasons. He stated that it is not the intent of the federal law to allow low-speed vehicles on a regular highway. 8:24:33 AM MR. FISK told the committee that HB 403 would have a fiscal note, which he has not yet received, but which would amount to approximately $10,000 for licensing, development, and programming. He said the bill would be heard by the House Transportation Standing Committee and the House Finance Committee. 8:24:42 AM CHAIR SEATON informed Mr. Fisk that the fiscal note is in the committee packet. 8:24:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS noted that in colder climates, such as Fairbanks, it is a requirement to "remove all ... batteries and store them in a warm ... garage or heated space throughout the winter, otherwise they freeze and you lose all their value." He said he had to pay extra to get gas-powered golf carts. He said he supports the notion of the bill, but since the low-speed vehicles will be licensed by the DMV, he would like to see something that is applicable across the state. He added that he wants to ensure Fairbanks can have [a low-speed vehicle] that is street legal, and the way the bill is presently drafted, that would not be possible. 8:28:11 AM MR. FISK said, "This is part of ... why it was important to change the designation from neighborhood electric vehicles to low-speed vehicles." He indicated that he thinks [Version F] would help alleviate Representative Ramras' concerns. 8:29:21 AM MR. FISK, in response to a question from Representative Gardner, said there are no 4-wheel drive low-speed vehicles currently, and he doesn't know how they would perform on hills. 8:29:49 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked Mr. Fisk if there are any features in any other related state laws that he would like to see incorporated in HB 403. 8:30:36 AM MR. FISK said he has skimmed through some of the regulations of the 36 states that have legalized this mode of transportation thus far, and he agreed to show those regulations to Representative Gruenberg. 8:31:28 AM CHAIR SEATON reviewed the changes made in Version F for those who did not have a copy. 8:32:14 AM DUANE BANNOCK, Director, Office of the Director, Division Motor Vehicles, Department of Administration, testified in support of HB 403. He said some vehicles that are branded by the federal government as being a different type of motor vehicle are currently not covered under state statute. He indicated that [HB 403] would be one way for the DMV to "play a little bit of catch-up." He said the DMV does not involve itself in vehicle usage, but only in the title and registration of the vehicle. Mr. Bannock mentioned Global Electric Motorcars ("GEM cars"). He said every vehicle comes with what is called either a manufacturer's certificate of origin (MCO) or manufacturer's statement of origin (MSO). He read the MSO for the GEM car as follows: "This low-speed vehicle conforms to federal regulations, under ... Title 49, CFR, part 571.500. It is our opinion that this ... bill will allow our statute to then respect that this MSO is now a welcome MSO at the DMV, no different for a Ford Mustang or something like that." CHAIR SEATON asked if the DMV would have any problems with adding the low-speed vehicle to the rest of vehicles which are charged $100 biannually. 8:35:11 AM MR. BANNOCK answered that the DMV concurs entirely with adding that fee. In response to a follow-up question from Chair Seaton, he said the DMV also has no concern regarding removing the word "electric." 8:35:31 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked Mr. Bannock if he would anticipate that in terms of licensing and registration of [low-speed] vehicles, the dealer would be responsible, even if he/she is not an automobile dealer under normal circumstances. 8:36:11 AM MR. BANNOCK answered, "If it was a dealer transaction, yes." 8:36:22 AM CHAIR SEATON asked if someone who sells four-wheelers or snow machines is under the same business license definition as a [car] dealer. 8:36:44 AM MR. BANNOCK answered, "I'm pretty sure no." 8:37:24 AM CHAIR SEATON clarified that he wants to know if someone who currently deals in "Hondas and four-wheelers - those kind of things" - would be prevented from selling [low-speed vehicles]. 8:38:08 AM MR. BANNOCK responded specifically to the Honda example. He said that beside cars, Honda sells motorcycles, snow blowers, lawn mowers, and 4-wheelers. In Alaska, he said, motorcycle dealers are a different type of automobile dealer. He stated, "So, if you were the Honda dealer and you sold the arrangement between 4-wheelers and lawnmowers - the fact that you sold motorcycles would require you to be [an] automobile dealer of motorcycles in Alaska." 8:38:33 AM CHAIR SEATON asked, "Let's say you did not sell motorcycles - you just sold all the other kinds of snowmobiles and all - would you then have to become an automobile dealer in order to be able to sell these low-speed electric vehicles?" MR. BANNOCK answered yes. CHAIR SEATON asked, "Then when you became a dealer, ... you would be required to do the title and registration, and ... you wouldn't have to be a business partner, you could still take the information and send that information into the DMV. Is that correct?" MR. BANNOCK answered in the affirmative. 8:39:47 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG directed attention to Section 4 of version F. He asked Mr. Bannock if he sees any advantage in simply referencing federal law rather than "listing all these things out in the state law." He offered an example. 8:40:52 AM MR. BANNOCK replied that there is serious merit to that idea. REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that [Mr. Fisk] was nodding and smiling. 8:41:17 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if the department has ever been contacted regarding taking 4-wheelers "out of the ditches and on to the highway," providing they meet certain requirements, such as turn signals and lighting. 8:41:34 AM MR. BANNOCK answered yes. However, he said he doesn't believe HB 403 addresses that situation, nor would he support that proposal. 8:42:01 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO said he has heard people say they think that would be a good idea, because then they could go to work on a 4-wheeler that only costs $6,000 instead of [a low-speed vehicle] that costs $15,000. He asked what the opposition is. 8:42:17 AM MR. BANNOCK said he owns a relatively new Honda 4-wheeler. On the MSO is written a warning that the 4-wheeler is not for use on any roads or highways. He stated that the DMV banks a lot on the manufacturer's recommendation of a particular product. 8:44:35 AM LIEUTENANT JAMES A. HELGOE, Legislative Liaison, Division of Alaska State Troopers, Department of Public Safety (DPS), in response to a question from Chair Seaton, said he agrees with the limitation in the proposed legislation that low-speed vehicles may not be operated on a highway that has a maximum speed of more than 35 mph. He expressed agreement with the idea of allowing municipalities to set other limits, but not if those limits exceed the 35 mph hour restriction. 8:46:09 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO noted that some roads change from 35, to 45, to 55 mph, within 100 yards. If low-speed vehicles are allowed on a road that starts out at 35 mph and then increases, Representative Gatto said he feels "they're mixing with the heavies." 8:47:04 AM LT. HELGOE said he sees this issue as a concern in certain areas within the state. 8:47:42 AM CHAIR SEATON stated his understanding of the bill is that if a person operating a low-speed vehicle is in an area with a speed limit above 35, he/she would not legally be able to operate the vehicle in that area. He asked Mr. Helgoe if that is his understanding, as well. 8:48:21 AM MR. HELGOE answered yes. 8:48:25 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG asked for Mr. Helgoe's feedback regarding who should decide the limits - the local authority or the state legislature. He noted that some areas have bike paths, and municipalities may want to set rules to keep low- speed vehicles off of them. 8:49:29 AM MR. HELGOE stated his belief that the local municipalities should have the authority to "regulate the use" and "that should not be written into state law." In response to a question from Representative Gruenberg, he offered his understanding that DOT&PF sets the speed limits for the Parks Highway. In response to a follow-up question from Representative Gruenberg as to whether or not DOT&PF or the legislature should set limits, he said that is beyond his expertise to offer an answer. 8:52:16 AM CHAIR SEATON clarified: What is being asked here is: Do you think that we should allow these vehicles and allow them to be operated on roads within municipal jurisdictions that are above 35 mph? That's the question. If we don't set it in statute, it means that local jurisdictions can either ... not [make] any designation or [make] a designation of 55 mph .... And I thought your earlier comment was [that] for safety reasons they should not be allowed to mix with traffic on roads above 35 mph. 8:53:03 AM LT. HELGOE answered that's correct. He stated, "I do not believe these low-speed vehicles should be commingled in any roadway with a speed limit above 35 mph, and further I feel that we should allow the local ... municipalities to set up areas that they deem safe for the operation and commingle of these vehicles." 8:53:41 AM CHAIR SEATON said, "But the question is should they be allowed to set a speed limit above 35 mph, or should that be permissive that they could set areas that could be designated and at lower speeds. But, I mean, the question is: Should we remove the 35 mph from the statute, which would allow ... local jurisdictions to set 45 or 50 mph?" 8:53:53 AM LT HELGOE responded, "No, I believe 35 should stay in." 8:54:04 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO asked if a low-speed vehicle licensed by the state would be violating the law by operating "off the pavement" with four-wheelers, for example. 8:54:33 AM LT. HELGOE answered no. 8:54:55 AM JACK CANELLI, Legal Council and Regulatory Specialist, Global Electric Motor Cars, told the committee that he manufactures electric low-speed vehicles in Fargo, North Dakota. In response to a question from Representative Gruenberg, he said what he would recommend has already been touched upon, which is adopting federal standards by reference. In response to a follow-up question from Representative Gruenberg, he said he would e-mail suggested language to the sponsor. Regarding the previous talk of deferring the decision to the local municipalities, he told the committee that the vast majority of states have had their legislatures define the [low-speed vehicles] and set a restriction that they be allowed on streets with speed limits of 35 mph or less. Then, he said, some states give local jurisdictions the ability to set further restrictions in the interest of public safety. He said he would not allow municipalities to set limits higher than that set by the legislature. 8:57:58 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that in Juneau, one of the streets connecting one area of Juneau to the rest of Juneau has variable speed limits. He asked Mr. Canelli for his thoughts on that subject. 8:58:30 AM MR. CANELLI said low-speed vehicle owners would know that if they are on a 40 mph street they are not operating legally. 8:59:34 AM CHAIR SEATON, in response to a question from Representative Lynn, noted that [lines 15-18] on page 2 address the issue of crossing a street with a speed limit of more than 35 mph. The language read as follows: Notwithstanding this subsection, the operator of a low-speed vehicle may cross a highway that has a maximum speed limit of more than 35 miles an hour if the crossing is made at the intersection with a highway that is authorized for low-speed vehicles. 8:59:54 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER recalled Representative Ramras' previous comments about operating certain vehicles in extreme cold climates. She noted that Mr. Canelli's company is in North Dakota and asked him to tell the committee how the company's low-speed vehicles work in cold temperatures. 9:00:31 AM MR. CANELLI said low-speed vehicles are generally not made for cold weather; his company's standard version doesn't even have doors on it, although they are available. He noted that they can be run indoors in such places as a sports stadium or a large warehouse. REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER asked if the low-speed vehicle would actually function in cold weather. 9:02:09 AM MR. CANELLI said he can't answer that question. 9:02:32 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG noted that the driving force behind the bill - Representative Thomas' constituent from Skagway - is available to testify. 9:03:05 AM ED IBBOTSON, testifying on behalf of himself, said low-speed vehicles are not made for every application; they are made for the person who needs to run down to the grocery store or post office a couple times a week, but doesn't want the expense of maintaining a gasoline-powered vehicle. Regarding the issue of commingling vehicles, he pointed out that there are already scooters on the streets with bigger vehicles. Mr. Ibbotson said the instigator for the bill was his desire to run a car rental business for tourists, which is when he found out that [low- speed] vehicles are not legal in Alaska. He stated that he has heard from locals in Skagway who think the vehicles would be ideal for their town. 9:05:23 AM CHAIR SEATON moved Conceptual Amendment 1 as follows: On page 2, line 20: Delete paragraph (27) Insert the definition of low-speed vehicle as found in federal law 9:05:46 AM REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS objected for purposes of discussion. He asked if the federal definition includes a gas-powered vehicle, or if it only applies to electric vehicles. 9:05:59 AM MR. FISK stated that the federal regulations do not specify that the low-speed vehicle is an electric one. 9:06:06 AM REPRESENTATIVE RAMRAS, regarding his previous statement about requirements for cold climates, stated for the record that nobody is intending to ride a low-speed vehicle in December when it's 30 degrees below zero. He removed his objection. 9:06:53 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER objected for discussion purposes. She said she thinks the distinction between electric and gas vehicles is partly one of noise. She said she is concerned about allowing something that may be loud. 9:07:17 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO noted that nonelectric vehicles include those run on propane, which he indicated are quiet. He said a "two cycle go-cart with no muffler is pretty potent." 9:07:37 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER responded, "Do we want to approve those for our ... neighborhoods?" 9:08:49 AM MR. CANELLI, in response to a question from Representative Gruenberg, said the federal regulations allow both gas and electric; however, he is not currently aware of any gas-powered, low-speed vehicles other than perhaps a John Deere Gator, which he said is not an on-road vehicle. 9:09:21 AM REPRESENTATIVE GARDNER removed her objection. CHAIR SEATON asked if there was any further objection to Conceptual Amendment 1. There being none, it was so ordered. 9:09:35 AM CHAIR SEATON moved to adopt Conceptual Amendment 2, on page 2, line 18, after "vehicles." to add language allowing local jurisdictions to further regulate for safety concerns. 9:09:48 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG objected for discussion purposes. He said he thinks Conceptual Amendment 2 may not be totally necessary, because that may be assumed under existing state law anyway. He asked Chair Seaton to make it clear that the amendment is requested, but doesn't have to be inserted if it's not necessary. CHAIR SEATON said the Co-Chair of the House Transportation Standing Committee - the next committee of referral - can choose to remove the language if it's not necessary. 9:10:25 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG removed his objection. CHAIR SEATON asked if there was any further objection to Conceptual Amendment 2. There being none, it was so ordered. 9:10:43 AM CHAIR SEATON closed public testimony. 9:11:02 AM REPRESENTATIVE GRUENBERG stated his assumption that with the removal of language through the adopted Conceptual Amendment 1, there is no longer a need for concern regarding the term "electric motor vehicle" because that language will be removed. CHAIR SEATON confirmed that is correct. 9:11:06 AM REPRESENTATIVE GATTO moved to report CSHB 403, Version 24- LS1229\F, Luckhaupt, 2/22/06, as amended, out of committee with individual recommendations and the accompanying fiscal note. There being no objection, CSHB 403(STA) was reported out of the House State Affairs Standing Committee.
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